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After watching recent documentary on Rodolfo Vieira (here on DSTRYR/SG), I gotta say I'm a little upset. Not at Rodolfo. Trust me, I don't wanna pick a fight with that guy, but at the IBJJF. I'll explain. In watching the video, I learned that Rodolfo comes from a complete non-Gracie lineage. I had to stop for a second and ask myself how was this possible. If the red belt is limited to the founders of brazilian jiu jitsu, then everyone who learned jiu jitsu must have come from the Gracie tree. Much to my surprise, this wasn't the case. As it so happens Mitsuyu Maeda had a non-Gracie student, Luis Franca. Franca would then take a student of his own right around the time that Helio started training, Osvaldo Fadda. Fadda's line would lead to schools such as Nova Uniao and GFTeam. One only wonders if there were other names not so widely known that Maeda taught. It also makes me stop and question this list as being a little incomplete:
- Carlos Gracie
- Gastão Gracie
- George Gracie
- Hélio Gracie
- Oswald Gracie
If the red belt (i.e., the 10th degree red belt) is supposed to be limited to the pioneers of this art, then why isn't Franca's name on this list, why isn't Fadda's name on this list? One can argue that they had as much of an impact on the art as the Gracie's listed above. If you think the same, then maybe a campaign should be started to acknowledge these men.
For more info check out:
- Akume
You just figured out? Shame on you guys. :D
ReplyDeletefucking oath
ReplyDeleteMaeda wasn't the only Japanese teaching jiujitsu/judo in Brazil. Takeo Yano was such a man, who once had a challenge match against Helio Gracie, and ending in a draw. He taught in Pernambuco, and some of his students include Jurandir Moura & Ivan Gomes ( Ivan Gomes fought Carlson Gracie Sr. several times always ended in a draw) The entire gracie myth was invented by Rorion Gracie to make money......
ReplyDeleteCarlos was taught judo by Mitsuyo Maeda, a Japanese emigrant to Brazil who was then a 4th dan Kodokan judoka. Carlos then passed the teachings on to his brothers Oswaldo, Gastão Jr., Jorge, and Hélio. In 1925, the brothers opened their first academy in Brazil, marking the beginning of the art of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. It has always been my understanding that Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is about the changes that the brothers made to what they were taught, that makes it BJJ. Not just the fact that it was Judo/jiu – jitsu taught in Brasil.
ReplyDeleteduh.....everyone is aware of all that already, did you even read the article? the point that you're totally missing, is about the other lineages of jiu jitsu in brazil
DeleteGracies took an existing art and refined,modified and added to it but they didn't invent ju-jitsu,the armbar or gi/no gi grappling. There are many forms of grappling that pre-date the Gracies that have similar or the same armbars,leglocks,chokes and takedowns. SO in fairness, the Gracies were the ones who exposed the world to their version of jujitsu/judo. Could Oswaldo's lineage have done the same? Yes, but it didn't... well not as well much or as well.
ReplyDeleteThe Gracies are about making money off of their name. Scott Epstein has a story from when he trained at Ricksons in LA,on how they changed rates, and increased seminar prices for members of his own flagship gym in LA. Mad respect for what they've done, but at the same time theyre like all the fat girls around the world who perpetuated that they give the best 'dome'. Simply isn't true.
ReplyDeleteThey wouldnt even teach non members any more than basic transitions and sweeps & subs for the longest time, like they thought they were Samurai or something, they're Scottish( the ones who introduced scalping to the native americans)
read this, its well worth it http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/5/22/2184090/history-of-jiu-jitsu-oswaldo-fadda-nova-uniao-and-non-gracie-jiu-jitsu
ReplyDeleteI hate to be 'that guy', but this entire argument seems to be based off of a common misconception that the red belt necessarily equate to a 10th degree. This is not the case. Oswaldo was 'only' a 9th degree which is also a red belt. The scant few sources you'll find on the internet (including BOTH of the abovementioned links) correctly source him as 9th. Whether or not this is fair or whether the Gracie's are great or despicable people is an entirely different matter...
ReplyDeleteGood point. I'm aware of that (as is Daniel, my teammate who wrote this short piece).
ReplyDeleteI think it's a question of what is appropriate, given that the 10th degree red belt is the highest level/honor and it is reserved for the pioneers/founders.
Plenty of room for other opinions.
It is also debatable whether it's accurate to say GFTeam is a non-Gracie lineage. That team developed out of Gama Filho, which was started by Pinduka, a Carlson black belt. Julio Cesar was a member of that team, so although HIS lineage is the Franca-Fadda line, GFTeam itself has connections to Carlson.
ReplyDelete